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PTC heater for fuel ramp with temp 70-80 C
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Författare:  Obormot [ ons 09-01-07 18:21 ]
Inläggsrubrik:  PTC heater for fuel ramp with temp 70-80 C

Hello!

is anybody try to use PTC heater elements for heating fuel ramp?

everything i found working with "switchig" temp 120-130 C.

sure i can use usual heaters and thermostat, but PTC heaters are VERY simple and reliable.

i trying to build automatic preheater for cold starting with pure ethanol.

Regards,
Andrey.

Författare:  Obormot [ sön 09-02-01 19:47 ]
Inläggsrubrik: 

Hello!

I found!

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This is a ceramic round shaped heater elements with both silvered sides (for contact). Stabilising temperature is

80±10ºC, 12V, and i got 2 types: 1.5 Ohm (about 65W) and 2.2 Ohm (about 95W).

I plan to mount it on the bottom of the fuel rail like on this drawing:

Bild

PTC heaters are self-regulating, so not needed any thermostats, everything is very simple and reliable.

How do you think, is 3x95W heaters will be enough for quick starting (less minute) when outside temp. is about -10°C ?

Preheater will turns on and preheat the fuel rail to 60-70 °C, and turns off when cranking. After motor starts, it will automatically hold temperature of the fuel rail.

Fuel rail is "with dead end".

Regards,
Andrey.

Författare:  krassegrand [ mån 09-04-20 11:59 ]
Inläggsrubrik: 

How is it working, assuming that it is finnished.

Författare:  erikn [ ons 09-04-22 11:22 ]
Inläggsrubrik: 

Hi!

I am also interested. Also interested in brand and manufacturer.

Författare:  kakraemer [ ons 09-04-22 12:45 ]
Inläggsrubrik: 

Seems like they are made by Epcos.
Epcos PTC's

Författare:  Obormot [ fre 09-05-01 10:15 ]
Inläggsrubrik: 

Hello!

bioethanol program in my country is temporary (i hope) stopped, so i can't check how it works - no fuel :-(

i can send by mail PTC heaters to any interested person - heaters produced in my country and very cheap, so i get 1 box (100 heaters) and can send it for free - if you will tell, how it works on real engine with real E85 or E98 fuel.

EPCOS heaters (all i can find) are for temperature 120C - i think it's too hot. And price is much bigger.

Författare:  Dr. Mabuse [ fre 09-05-01 21:49 ]
Inläggsrubrik: 

Question is... will 3*95W be enough to heat the fuel rail in reasonable time?

Författare:  Obormot [ mån 09-05-11 19:55 ]
Inläggsrubrik: 

in new VW Polo in "ethanol adapted" luel rail using 4 "heater plugs"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS5Za2DIGV0

i think power of these 4 heaters not bigger than 400 W.

by the way, i have PTC heaters with temperature 120C.

Författare:  Dr. Mabuse [ tis 09-05-12 07:04 ]
Inläggsrubrik: 

Obormot skrev:
in new VW Polo in "ethanol adapted" luel rail using 4 "heater plugs"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS5Za2DIGV0

i think power of these 4 heaters not bigger than 400 W.

by the way, i have PTC heaters with temperature 120C.

We're looking forward to your report...

Författare:  aryan [ tis 09-05-12 10:40 ]
Inläggsrubrik: 

Obormot skrev:
in new VW Polo in "ethanol adapted" luel rail using 4 "heater plugs"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS5Za2DIGV0

i think power of these 4 heaters not bigger than 400 W.

by the way, i have PTC heaters with temperature 120C.


Interresting! Normal heater plugs for diesel cars use 20A each when cold if I remember correctly so they could be about 960 W total if that is what they use.

The petrol in E85 has a lower boiling point then pure ethanol. So I think for E85 120 °C is a bit too much, you would need as much as 8 bar in the fuel rail to prevent boiling.

/Aryan

Författare:  Obormot [ sön 09-08-23 15:14 ]
Inläggsrubrik: 

now i made some test.

i take 200 ml of ethanol (i think fuel rail contains about 200 ml of fuel), insert into it 3 x 95 W PTC heaters and connect in to accumulator.

heaters start to heat momentary - i see how hot ethanol go up from heater, and there was small quantity of bubbles.

so, 3 x 95 W heaters heats 200 ml of ethanol from -10C to +50 for 10 min.

not good.

i think heating of whole fuel rail - not good idea.

i will try to heat only injectors, and only before start and 1-2 minutest after start, then fuel will be heated by engine cooling liquid.

for injector heater i plan to use some kind of "glowwire" in teflon isolation - just wrap it around injector. i have to calculate power of heater to prevent thermal damage of injector.

P.S. there is a good application for this PTC heaters - it can be attached to wall of the carburator for preheating fuel for cold start.

Författare:  Obormot [ sön 09-10-18 20:43 ]
Inläggsrubrik: 

finally i install a PTC heater.

i use 3 PTC elements X 95W, soldered to 70x20x3 mm copper plate for better heat conductivity. i think PTC heaters needs very good "radiator" to take away heat - otherwise heaters will quickly heat itself (but not fuel in rail) to 80ºC (switch-off point) and will not work on full power.

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plate was installed on the bottom side of my dead-end fuel rail using plastic clamps. PTC heaters will never go over +80ºC, so i think it will be OK with plastic clamps, but may be metal will be better.

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tonight was +10ºC, and i can not start engine on pure etanol - even using "cold start assisit" function of my adapter.

after 1 min of heating it starts VERY good, fuel rail was warm (i feel it by hand).

by the way, this is fuel injector after about 1 year and 20 000 on ethanol :)

Bild

Författare:  matsuda [ mån 09-10-19 00:03 ]
Inläggsrubrik: 

I hope it gets colder so you can try cold starting in as low as -20 degrees celcius. If it works, it looks very promising.

Författare:  Obormot [ mån 09-10-19 01:01 ]
Inläggsrubrik: 

-20ºC usually in december or january.

i have a frieend, who working in cold warehouse of icecream and frost food, so i can try to leave car in warehouse for 2-3 hours and then try to start engine :)

Författare:  matsuda [ tis 09-10-20 18:05 ]
Inläggsrubrik: 

Although it would be very interesting scientifically, it would be better if you just waited for the winter. Cooling your entire car to -20 degrees celcius is really a waste of energy :).

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