Etanol.nu

hej together,

we have now a norm for E85, called DIN 51625. So we have, in analogy to Sweden, an E85 in summer and an E70 in winter, and a blend of them during spring and autumn.

one of the consequences could be the disappearance of start problems in winter time, most of the users in Germany hope.

actually we have 196 regular fuel stations and a few of so-called "Betriebstankstellen" what means they are only usable for the employees.

the numbers of stations will grow in the next months, but how fast? nobody knows, because here are a lot of local, regional and countrywide administrations involved.

in the discussion on the irregularity of using piggyboxes nothing changes....it's not allowed but more and more use a piggybox.
its a pity that we do not have an european consense in using car parts.

_________________
best wishes from here
Volvo V70 II on 30% E85 (just for starts) and LPG
Berti
http://www.ethanol-tanken.com
http://www.spritmonitor.de/de/detailansicht[url]/349366.html[/url]

Don't you mean E75 in winter like we have here?

Personally I use an engine preheater and I would prefer E85 all year long, if I would need E75 you I can always mix it myself, but mix E75 to E85 is harder...

/Aryan

_________________
Komplettera gärna data om dit piggybacksystem här: http://www.editgrid.com/user/aryan/E85_piggyback_system och här viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6352

We have, except in Germany...

_________________
http://direktdemokraterna.se
Myndigförklara dig själv.

maybe, the range in the norm goes from E70 up to E85


yeah German regulations are stronger as in our neighborhood countries

_________________
best wishes from here
Volvo V70 II on 30% E85 (just for starts) and LPG
Berti
http://www.ethanol-tanken.com
http://www.spritmonitor.de/de/detailansicht[url]/349366.html[/url]

Hello

Same in France.
Any "important" car modification requires
1/ the agreement of the car manufacturer
2/ a specific procedure to have the car documents updated

An Ethanol piggybox is considered as an "important" car modification because changing the main energy of the car

On this basis, since September 2008, piggybox presence if seen during MoT testing automatically leads to "MoT failed" and the car owner has 2 months to have the car back to be MoT tested again
The rationale behind is that with a piggybox the main energy of the car is "Ethanol" while the car registration document states "petrol" ==> car running with a fuel different from the one written on the car documents (native Flexfuel cars have a specific "ethanol" energy)

In theory, if the car manufacturer indicates that the car can be modified for Ethanol ... it should be possible to keep the piggybox but currently they all refuse to provide with such a document arguing about the entire fuel system not designed for alcohol

It has to be noticed that the global procedure is sibling to the one used for aftermarket LPG upgrade ... the manufacturer establishes a document indicating that the car can be modified to LPG and then with an agreed equipement installed by an approved garage, and some papers ... the energy source of the car is modified from Gasoline to LPG

As far as Ethanol mixture is concerned, we have
- summer blend between E75 and E85 (5 months period)
- mid season blend between E70 and E80 (twice 1.5 months)
- winter blend between E65 and E75
Some people say that TOTAL stations only deliver E70/E75 all year long (with a liter price of 0,99€ versus an average of 0,85€ for Supermarket stations)

Number of E85 stations is currently 277 slowly increasing by some 5 to 10 per month

Newspapers calculated that the global E85 volume sold during the 2008 summer period ... is ten times the one normally implied by the number of native flexfuel cars

Native Flexfuel cars are far less popular in 2008 than in 2007 ... only a few thousands sold for many reasons
1/ most of Diesel cars are at the same price level ... as an example Ford Focus or Volvo 30/40/50 are both available either with TDCi (90 HP) or Flexfuel engines (125HP) at the same price level (TDCi are less powerful but have far more torque)
2/ Diesel cars often get a CO2 tax discount of some 200 -700 Euros (because very often below 120-140g CO2/km) while the flexfuel cars have a CO2 tax malus of some 200-700 Euros (because often 160+ g CO2/km calculed on petrol use ... due to European regulations the government says ?)
Bye

Hi,

Nice to hear experiences from abroad!

It is a crying shame that car manufactorers are not supporting conversion to E85 while there is less of a problem with LPG conversion.

Luckily most cars can run on quite high ethanol mixtures some can even run on E85 without modifications. Otherwise I would just remove or hide the piggyback system before the MOT/CT. You only have to do it every 2 years anyway.

In our pan-european database http://etanol.nu/tanka.php there are already 281 stations in France could you please check if the info is correct for the statons in your area? Thank you very much for helping us with the database!

/Aryan

PS I have a flexifuel converted 2cv !

_________________
Komplettera gärna data om dit piggybacksystem här: http://www.editgrid.com/user/aryan/E85_piggyback_system och här viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6352

very interesting, that we are not the only state in EU with loonies in the government


and now to something completely different:

new rumors in a German newspaper about taxing E85 from 2009

the German minister for Environment, Mr. Gabriel, now wants to tax every biological fuel, so we must read today.
After the disaster of estblishing regular petrol with 10% of ethanol in to reach a higher quote of biogenic fuels in Germany, he went back to a mixing quote of 4,8% instead of 6,25% over all fuels (Diesel and petrol).
He argues that this will help the consumers safe money, because the production of ethanol is more expensive!!

they all need a big kick in the ***

here the links to the newspaper (German text)

http://www.berlinonline.de/berliner-zei ... index.html

and a comment http://www.berlinonline.de/berliner-zei ... index.html

_________________
best wishes from here
Volvo V70 II on 30% E85 (just for starts) and LPG
Berti
http://www.ethanol-tanken.com
http://www.spritmonitor.de/de/detailansicht[url]/349366.html[/url]

Hi
I took the value 277 from the government site
http://www.prix-carburants.gouv.fr/inde ... tE85Prices
I'll check in my area
Bye

Merci beaucoup!

/Aryan

_________________
Komplettera gärna data om dit piggybacksystem här: http://www.editgrid.com/user/aryan/E85_piggyback_system och här viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6352

hi Ceyal,

do you know this site, too?

http://prix-du-carburant.autonews.fr/ca ... Ethanol-85

there are some stations listed, which are not in the official list...and some are missing

using these data for my google map (you can find it searching for the string www.ethanol-tanken.com in the options -user content field), i often compare them to find the correct addresses

if you like, i can send you an invitation via google map (after sending me your mail addrress via PN), and you can use the map and work on it.

i check every station via satellite fotos on google maps and www.multimap.com

_________________
best wishes from here
Volvo V70 II on 30% E85 (just for starts) and LPG
Berti
http://www.ethanol-tanken.com
http://www.spritmonitor.de/de/detailansicht[url]/349366.html[/url]

Volvo-Berti"]

Well, in Sweden its allowed to re-register your car with higher power output, as long as the manufacturer have similar models with same or higher power. And if not, the authorities can make a judgement where they look at modified brakes, suspension, tyres and such. In reality 250-400 hp in Volvos and SAAB turbos, is not unusual here, legally..

But when it came to legal conversion for ethanol, the lonies in several parties meant that a power increase over 5% would outwork any gains for environment and should not be allowed....
This is only possible in Sweden...




For sure a corrupted guy with important contacts in Munich, Wolfsburg, Cologne and Stuttgart...

_________________
http://direktdemokraterna.se
Myndigförklara dig själv.

hej Karl,

we have often discussed about the differences bteween Germany and Sweden, and often we cannot come to an agreement, but now you are right!!

to increase the power can become legal, just by proofing the methods to reach the new values.
then these values where registered into the cars papers, thats it

but as you wrote, even driving with E85 and getting more power without registering; you could be punished.

you see, that not only in Sweden its possible to harm the regulations

_________________
best wishes from here
Volvo V70 II on 30% E85 (just for starts) and LPG
Berti
http://www.ethanol-tanken.com
http://www.spritmonitor.de/de/detailansicht[url]/349366.html[/url]

Fuck the regulations!

_________________
http://direktdemokraterna.se
Myndigförklara dig själv.

Hello

I Crosscheck yesterday this site with the petrol stations in the city area where I live
http://prix-du-carburant.autonews.fr/ca ... et-Vilaine
At least 2 of them are NOT distributing E85 AT ALL at the time of writing
- Alma (parking Carrefour) Rennes Elf
10 rue du Bosphore 35200 RENNES
- Leclerc ZI Etang au Diable
35760 St Grégoire
- the one of 35190 Tinteniac I do not know
In addition the price given for Diesel and SP95 are not updated at all (prices of one year ago !!! although they indicate an update of this summer !!!)
So amongst the 6 listed 3 are correct, 2 are not and 1 : don't know (too far from my house)


Information of this site are fully correct ... I just updated the price
Bye

Thanks a lot! Are the locations on the map correct too?

Salut, Aryan

_________________
Komplettera gärna data om dit piggybacksystem här: http://www.editgrid.com/user/aryan/E85_piggyback_system och här viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6352